Saturday, August 11, 2012

part submission love ...the response

This is a topic that has provoked some fantastic debate and was clearly close to a lot of people's hearts. Thank you to all of you who have taken part. I thought with the learning's I took from all the comments and some private discussion as well as some deeper thought, I might just round off the topic. In my first post here I pondered whether I must experience love for Him in order to submit truly and more deeply.

There were a couple of issues highlighted in the responses.
  1. The capacity to love deeply more than one while that person may not be one's significant other (non-Dom and Local D in my case).
  2. The difference in the nature of love. We love differently in different relationships and all are valid, healthy and an experience of honesty to oneself and others.
However my original question, which perhaps was not very well expressed was not really touched on.

I think I am not asking if it is right or wrong to love more than one man (or woman, insert your favoured gender here) and at which point? Rather, in searching for a more perfect searching for my submission, will any submission I offer only deepen or carry authenticity if I love? Does Love bring the strength to submit? If I never love, never give into these feelings which I have experienced in the moments where he Dominates me (and I want to wrap myself around him in love, like a koala in a high waving eucalyptus tree, face buried in the trunk eyes closed away from the sun), if I never give myself completely in Love, can I ever deliver an authentic overwhelming submission to him? Do I really care if I have another to love? I can answer this last one, I do care though sometimes I feel very mercenary in all this and most decidedly unsubmissive!

There is an issue for me in loving more than one man at once. It would feel like infidelity to me. This is an important boundary not to be crossed for the very real fear that it would hurt non-Dom. If I could get past that, if I could live with real secrets from non-Dom then all would be well! One of my biggest barriers in all this TTWD is my overwhelming sense of guilt that my actions will not honour non-Dom. Loving another man would be crossing the line. I truly agonise over these things...thinking too much. This is the man however with whom I hope to share myself to the end of life.  If I fuck it up there is no recovery, not really. We have survived one such major fuck up, no matter how many years, no matter how much forgiveness, the memory has not faded.

If I let myself love in order to submit, it would be in secret, in a lie to non-Dom. This is not part of our agreement around this episode in our lives. Would I risk this though if it meant a more authentic experience of my submission? An honest experience?

In his comment on the post, Bruce may have come the closest in addressing the relationship between submission and love, calming me in the same moment, when he said,
I like to think of D/s love as occupying that grey area between spousal love, and parent-child love. And it is on a sliding scale in that grey zone. I believe as the trust and submission grow, so too will the scale move. And just as the scale moves, so too can the submission deepen.
In a private conversation, a friend advised to stop thinking and enjoy the moment, enjoy where you are and stop thinking about the future (how did he know I was thinking about tomorrow, wondering if it would be as good as today?

So would I take the risk and love in order to engage with submission? Maybe...even probably. Or should I wait for the pendulum to swing traversing the sliding scale of grey light between spousal love and parent-child love?...Most probably.  This is the paradigm that fits most closely with who I am and takes the dilemma of choosing to love another man away from me. It is no longer in my control and isn't that the point after all. Submission, in this paradigm is inextricably linked to a love that is comfortable and has its place in the grey light where D/s lives. Funny the wisdom one can find in the strangest of places.

unknown photographer: sourced from the interweb


  1. I did read the previous post but i held back from commenting because well to be honest i wanted to see what other opinions were out there.

    When i first became involved with my Master it was not about love, he wanted a masochistic slave nothing more and nothing less, and i was seeking an experienced sadistic dominant. Respect was more important than love.

    It changed, we have been together 5 years now and i do love him very much and he loves me, i think its difficult to maintain such an intense dynamic without a deeper emotional connection occurring but this does not i think necessarily have to be the emotion of love.

    I have wandered myself if there is perhaps a difference of how we interpret love and submission between those in an established relationship and both together explore D/s and those that seek out D/s etc with a prospective partner.

    In my case i sought it out, i wasnt seeking love and the actual dynamic is more important to me, i dont want a lover, partner etc i want an owner..yes i think they can all be combined but i think its all dependent on how we personally think of these labels.

    Just my thoughts on an interesting subject.

    1. thank you Tori for taking the time to add to the layers of this topic. It does seem to have got some juices flowing

  2. I believe that you should choose to do what ultimately makes you happy. But I don't believe in taking that choice away from someone else, which is what deception does. I don't believe in not thinking about the future, especially if you are sharing the present with someone who has given you their heart and their trust. If things have changed for you, so be it, it happens. Let the other person in on it so they can decide if they want to be a part of that change. Keeping them in the dark about these kinds of things is the ultimate in selfishness. What i enjoyed most about being single was that I did not have to consider anyone else's feelings about my choices; so no one got hurt. As soon as I allowed someone to believe that we were partners and thus had a say in how i conducted my life, I had an obligation to give a damn about how my actions were going to affect them. If I ever find myself not being able to put my wife's feelings first, then the only loving thing I could possibly do is to be honest with her and give her the opportunity to find someone else that will. Loving more than one person at once is not unfaithfull in and of itself. But keeping someone who expects you to be honest about such things in the dark, most certainly is. If this is not shared with them then It shouldn't only FEEL like infidelity, IT IS ifidelity. As someone who is currently in an emotionally and physically monogomous relationship, I think its great that you have an issue with this. I think its great that you think about the future, especially if the person you are with is thinking about it too. Remember, no one is forcing us to be in comitted relationships. If those relationships are getting in the way of something that we need for ourselves, then we must do the merciful thing and seek to change or end those relationships. Unless you are trying to have your cake while eating it, This should never be done unilaterally. Just my opinion of course. Again, I thank you for your candor. I'm learning alot from your blog. Good luck

    1. jfv you make sense to me. You are talking about simply respecting and treating with respect the person you have committed to honour. Thank you for adding your perspective t this debate. As joolz mentions below 'in a perfect world'... This is essentially a moral debate informed by our belief systems long ago instilled in us all. The globalised nature of the internet means that there is a melting pot of worldviews around one topic. A difficult issue to assign right and wrong in action. Issues of respect however I would argue, are universal.
      Thank you jfv. You are welcome here.

  3. In an ideal world L you would have that conversation with non dom and all would be well. Trouble is we don't live in an ideal world and only you can know the extent to which you can submit to local Dom and so expose yourself to the possibility of a more intense love.

    I want to have these discussions with hubby, but don't think that he would be open to me having any kind of relationship with anyone else. He has been jealous in the past of my relationship with a girlfriend, if activities didn't involve him, so i can't imagine he wouldn't be about another man.

    I think submission and discipline leads to a new level of feelings we don't perhaps have in our other relationships and that leads to people who subject their thoughts and feelings to analysis (probably all of us writing blogs about this)are going to struggle with this one.

    I was going to write something on my own blog, but you and Irish Imp have pretty much summed this up for me now. Take care, Jx

    1. you are right a perfect world...

  4. I would just like everyone to understand, My post was not a critique about loving two people or exploring the connection between love and submission. Personally, The most submissive thing i've ever done in my life was to fall in love. I also believe that although we are capable of choosing monogomy and romantic exclusivity, it does NOT come naturally to human beings. I think those are both concepts that do not have a 'right' or 'wrong' way, and should be explored and discussed. I'm really glad you understood where I was coming from in my post littleone. Respect is all I was really talking about. Thank you for the warm welcome.


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